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Friday, 19 June 2015

Our Moral Obligations to African Migrants and the BBC

The boat carrying the Nigerian Muslims who drowned Christians arrives in Italy



I've just finished watching Question Time on the BBC, where one of the questions from the studio audience was whether we should help the people coming from Africa to Italy across the Mediterranean.

That question sparked a contest among the panellists for who shows most philanthropic generosity and heartfelt altruism in asserting that most definitely yes, we have an indisputable moral obligation to help them.

In their answers, the line was blurred between economic migrants and refugees in fear for their lives, escaping dangerous situations.

But hey, it was all for a good cause.

It was never mentioned that, even in the case of genuine refugees, there’s a general principle in the EU that asylum should be claimed in the first safe country that is reached, which is what so-called asylum seekers often don't do.

The UK has its own application of this principle. British charity The Refugee Council explains:
Safe third country

The Home Office deems certain countries to be places where a refugee is safe from persecution... If an asylum seeker travels through any of these states en route to the UK, he or she may be returned there on grounds of having travelled through a safe third country.
Unfortunately this is not a EU clear rule or legal requirement, giving rise to confusion.

The Dublin Regulation from which the "first safe country" principle derives is a confusing piece of legislation, so it is desirable that the ambiguities in it be dispelled by declaring that asylum seekers are obliged to claim asylum in the first safe country they can reach in their vicinity, rather than picking which country they prefer for economic reasons, which is likely to be a nation in Europe.

In case of economic migrants, there is no legal obligation to accept them. In terms of moral obligation, let's remind ourselves that the population of Africa alone is over 1 billion, to which - for moral reasons - we should add all the rest of the Third World's population in similar economic need.

Do we have a moral obligation to let all the Third World billions of inhabitants come to our shores and welcome them to our lands? In short, are we morally obliged to let our countries be destroyed?

Something else which was never mentioned during the program is that in April Muslim migrants being carried on a boat across the Mediterranean threw 12 Christians overboard to their deaths because they were not praying to Allah when they asked God for help when their dinghy suffered a puncture:
[A] Nigerian Christian prayed for his life in an innocent act that would end in the deaths of 12 fellow migrants.

One of the Muslims on board the rickety craft ordered him to stop, saying: 'Here, we only pray to Allah.'

When he refused, a violent fight ensued and 12 Christians drowned when they were thrown overboard by the Muslim refugees.
This is the sort of people we may let into our countries, not to mention the various terrorists, militants and criminals that the Islamic State controlling the Libyan coast smuggles to Europe.

Our betters, the cream of our media pundits and politicians are so concerned about "moral obligations" that they are prepared to let murderers become our next-door neighbours.

What is particularly aberrant is that the people pontificating from the height of their ethical stance in this way are not the ones who are going to bear the burden of their haughty choice. Lionel Barber, the editor of the Financial Times, and his co-pannellists on the Question Time panel last night are not likely to live in the sort of areas where immigrants and refugees reside.

Incidentally, for all those who say that all religions are the same, how many Christians do they know of who have thrown overboard, raped, tortured, beheaded or otherwise massacred Muslims in huge numbers as Muslims have done to Christians over the last few years, and about which we read every day?


23 comments:

  1. the audience for Question Time is not randomly drawn as is a British jury but is pre-screened for liberal bias by the BBC. see www.bbc.co.uk/tv-questiontimeaudianceapplication
    The Italian Governments moral obligation is to the Italian people whose interests it is betraying. If this migrant invasion is not halted and the majority not returned to their point of origin or a safe African haven it will be seen online in their homelands . Thousands will become tens of thousands see www,snouts-in-the-trough,com/archives/13385 watch the youtube video - Europe wake up or die

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  2. It has to be obvious to anyone with half a brain that this African invasion is being sanctioned and encouraged by the corrupted Kosher Western elite. Common sense would dictate the invaders boats are intercepted and towed straight back to the African coast immigrants unloaded and boat sank, not what is happening now using our navies to facilitate the invasion!

    The truth is these poor boat people are being used as tools by the Zionist powers that rule Europe to be used to further breakdown European ethnic cohesion and culture and destroy European nation states!

    If these invaders are allowed to settle in Europe it will only encourage many thousands more to come, there again that is the plan of the powers that be unfortunately!

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    1. Exactly. Off with the Telescreen.
      http://forward.com/culture/160496/was-george-orwell-an-anti-semite/

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  3. Even if these people are genuine asylum seekers, why should the UK house them all? Britain has taken much more than its rightful share. Eastern Europe is never pressurised into accepting them.

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    1. The UK is where the heart of the Beast resides in the City of London so that probably has something to do with it. If any are genuine asylum seekers they should be housed in other African or Asian countries near to where they came from. Asylum is only meant to be temporary so as soon as possible they should then be returned to country of origin.

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  4. The cult of the immigrants matters less than their skin colour. Blacks are more prone to violence and the statistics on black crime in America put paid to the idea that it's purely ideological in origin.

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  5. www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/13576

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  6. Spain has lots of Muslims and they aren't blaming them for the crisis, they are blaming the political class. Germany has millions of immigrants and is thriving. Europe is dying its natural death. It needs more and more immigrants to keep their societies alive. Without migration, European societies and economies would bleed to death.

    Here's a new idea - get the f**k out of every Muslim country, stop killing Muslims with your bombs, soldiers, funding and discriminatory policy and let the Muslims sort out their own affairs without Western interference. Then the flow of refugees will stop... Terrorism and fight for freedom has always been there too. Unfair to single out Muslims. Germany, we Muslims will not forgive you for selling nuclear weapon submarines to Israel and giving that racist country a second nuclear strike capability. If you like Jews so much, give a piece of your own country to them as a homeland. The more Muslim countries are attacked, the more you can expect more asylum seekers to come to white countries. You only have yourself to blame. The crusades, colonisation of every brown and black people, slavery, the holocaust, making indigenous populations disappear ( USA CANADA AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND), the small box genocide on native Indian in north America. Tasmania is Australia has no native population because they were wiped out 200 years ago. 1 million people died in Iraq since 1990(yeah you liberated us from saddam) 500 thousand in Afghanistan dead since 2001 stealing resource from colonies( east India company any one and many more). I gosh I could remember the whole list. Such nice white Christian people eh. West must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. The problem of extremism we are experiencing is not "mass immigration", immigration has been happening since the dawn of mankind.

    The problem we are experiencing is a direct result of lack of respect and tolerance substituted by ignorance. The problem we are experiencing is the direct result of poor consciousness and awareness of selective "information" being conveyed to us through various mainstream media sources. There's a new mainstream anti-Muslim racism that is built on fears for the survival of Western values. That's the product of a nervous society in which social betterment is becoming increasingly difficult and in which there is a sense of omnipresent competition and struggle. The emotions generated by this are often not directed at a system, but at those who are different, at foreigners. This is also launched from the political arena and absorbed at grassroots level.
    IA
    http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

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    1. most but all of your list of evil western deeds are true. We could make a list of evil Islamic deeds in Europe in past centuries.
      The evil people who attacked Iraq also allowed their own homelands to be invaded by migrants. In fact Blair intentionally wanted mass immigration to destroy the identity of England - google Andrew Neather immigration .

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    2. Should read Most but not all on your

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    3. Islam has a rich history of being far tolerant of other beliefs than Christians. It is thanks to this intellectual tolerance that that we have universities today since while the Christian church tried to destroy all pagan texts such as those coming from Greece, such as Plato and Aristotle, it was the Islamic empire which made efforts to collect all these texts, hire scholars from all across the ancient world, from Christians, pagans, and Muslims, to translate and copy the texts, which would ultimately pull Europe out of the Dark Ages and establish our first universities, and ultimately modern science. the very first writings of Aristotle came to Europe not in Greek but in Arabic, after European scholars believing they had been long destroyed after the collapse of the Roman Empire by the Roman Church which re-established it's control over these regions, with our intellectual history being preserved because the Muslims successfully pushed the Roman Church out of much of the Middle East in the 8th and 9th century, becoming one of the singular greatest events in history which we have to be grateful for today, that Europe lost much of Asia Minor to the Arabs, giving the Arabs enough time to collect whatever was left of the written treasures found in Alexandria before they could be destroyed by the Roman Church which held a policy of destroying anything of pagan origin.

      According to Pickthall,a well known historian and translator of the Quran said that “In the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people. It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Therefore the difference evident in that anecdote is not of manners only, but of religion. Tolerance was regarded as un-religious, if not irreligious. Before the coming of Al-Islam it had never been preached as an essential part of religion.” (M. Marmaduke Pickthall, English Historian and translator of the Qur’an)

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  7. There will never be an end to immigration, because of aging population and low birth rate. Without migration, European society and economy would bleed to death. There is no end to migration in the near future. The overall problem when dealing with immigration, is the need to first ascertain where these people have come from:- If they are from Commonwealth Countries (most likely not Australia, Canada, or New Zealand - there the immigration goes the other way), this can be seen as 200 years of imperialism coming back to bite us. If they are from Eastern Europe, this can be seen as 20 years of moronic EU policy coming back to bite us. If they come from the Middle East, this can be seen as 100 years of never ending scheming and meddling in that particular region coming back to bite us.

    Europe is dying its natural death. It needs more and more immigrants to keep their societies alive. Without migration, European societies and economies would bleed to death.

    After nearly 20 years of continuous mass inward migration to Britain, it is time the politicians stopped pretending that you can have a flourishing modern economy and deep cuts in mass migration. Perhaps it is time they faced up to this new reality and started tackling rather more quickly some of the social problems, including increased pressures on public services, that are also here to stay.
    IA
    http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

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  8. England with more people per square mile than India and China does not need population increase . Japan has a low birth rate at 1,4 average per female . Yet Japan has near zero immigration and the most recent figure for asylum seekers show they accepted an entire six. Japan says it will develop intelligent robots to deal with having a smaller population. In the near future England and France will be populated by invaders / settlers and except as geographic entities will no longer be England or France , Japan will still be Japan.

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  9. A Muslim is a citizen of this global tiny village. He does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. We are all part of a global village. I can reach Pakistan from London in seven hours.

    Stop treating foreigners like garbage and they will stop ruining your precious country. Why did you let them in in the first place if you didn't want them here? They left everything in their countries because of your promises. Are you so anxious to please that you can't say "no"? I would love to see you go to a foreign land where you don't have any friends, you don't even know anyone and you don't speak the language, and start from scratch. I would just LOVE to watch you do that. Let them integrate and stop segregating them. What I want is people being nice to each other. I don't care about race.

    No one has any problem when: Jews keep beards and wear their traditional caps Christian priests and nuns wear their religious outfits Buddhist monks wear orange robes Sikhs keep beards and wear turbans Indian aunties wear Sarees (cross streets and hang out in Wal-Mart) Yeah but if any Muslim male keeps beard or if any Muslim girl wears hijab then everyone has problem. It's Freedom when you go naked but it's extremism when you wear hijab - just plain hypocrisy! Looking at the case of France, a major secular nation, I believe it is also not allowing women freedom by not letting her to wear her choice of clothing as it supposedly "clashes with French secular values".

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  10. Due to the emergence of large Muslim population in the UK, sustenance of such colonial ambition of the British Imperialists faces some home grown challenge. Many of the young Muslims are determined to grow up with the core Islamic beliefs that were nurtured by the prophet of Islam himself and his devout companions. To them, these early Muslims of the prophet’s time are the true figure of highness that deserved to be followed in every aspect of the life. Hence the original Islam enters into their hearts with its inherent sharia, khelafa, migration and jihad. The de-Islamised and secularised converts to the western values and culture enjoy little honour or credibility in the eyes of these young British Muslims. This owes to the huge bulk of Islamic books in English language which is much more enriched than many of the native languages of Muslim countries like Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Malaysian, Indonesian, Somalian or Turkish languages. Hence women with hijab and youth with long beard are more visible in British universities than in the universities of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Turkey or Indonesia. Islam is more visible in some parts of the UK like East London, Birmingham, Bradford, Oldham and Luton than many parts of the Muslim countries. One can find hardly a Bangladeshi, Indian or Pakistani youths fighting in the jihad of Syria. But hundreds of British youths have already reached there; many of them have already given their life. This has added more venom to the anti-Islamic narratives of the British neocons. They are struggling to reconcile with such harsh reality of the British society. They are raising Trojan horse hoax just to encounter that reality.

    The British colonial power has collapsed, but their anti-Muslims campaign has not ended. It still survives amongst the neocons. They are fighting the same battle with the same strategy -not only in occupied Muslim lands but in their own land with significant Muslim population. In fact, the Trojan horse hoax against 5 Birmingham schools is only the tip of such anti-Muslim campaign. They are not ready to see the Muslims grooming up with any amount of Islamisation. They label such provision as indoctrination to terrorism. But what happened in Birmingham schools is far from Islamisation. These schools didn’t provide any enhanced access to Islamic knowledge or Islamic grooming. These schools are not Muslim faith schools and not managed by the Muslims. These are secular state schools -focused only to follow the state curriculum; and were regularly monitored by the state inspection teams. Therefore how the so-called Trojan horses can land in Birmingham in the midst of so many vigilant eyes of the government? Is it not the new bogey of the neocons to frighten the local people against the Muslims? The Ofsted school inspection team couldn't find any evidence that these schools were ignoring any part of state curriculum and teaching Islam. Instead, two of the alleged five schools made outstanding performance to meet the curriculum-based learning targets. Apart from head scarf and hijab, segregation of girls and boys during the physical exercise classes, few books on Islam in the library, congregation prayers at lunch break, absence of Christmas tree amidst 98% Muslim students and few teachers with long beards -what else could they find to suggest a deceitful takeover of British land –as the Trojan horse plot implies?
    IA
    http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

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  11. Immigrants, Migrants deserve nothing less than deportation. And that goes for the Muslim creeps. Anyone that that wants immigrants should pay the complete cost of their housing, health care and any other expenses. And should be jailed along with the immigrant if he commits a crime.

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  12. Ifty,

    We built up these great European civilisations on our own and don't need the "help" of third worlders from their chaotic, uncivilised shit holes to sort us out. All we need is a little bit more activity in the bedroom department between married, heterosexual couples to increase our population. All civilised societies go through the phase of reduced population unlike the third worlders who behave like rabbits in comparison.

    Ifty said, "Here's a new idea - get the f**k out of every Muslim country, stop killing Muslims with your bombs, soldiers, funding and discriminatory policy and let the Muslims sort out their own affairs without Western interference. Then the flow of refugees will stop..."

    At last we're in agreement! I apologise for our overseas excursions. It shouldn't matter to us that you're ruled by cruel dictators who have no interest in democracy. We have to stop trying to export democracy because there are just some parts of the world not civilised enough to appreciate it. Of course, as we both know, that's not the real reason the US and UK are meddling in the Middle East. Personally, I don't have a problem with Iran getting a nuclear weapon because it would restore some sort of balance of power out there and I don't think they'd ever use it against the West. Pakistan and India both have it, if I remember correctly, and they're not bothering us. It's significant that nobody is bothering them either!

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  13. Ifty added, "The crusades, colonisation of every brown and black people, slavery, the holocaust, making indigenous populations disappear ( USA CANADA AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND), the small box genocide on native Indian in north America. Tasmania is Australia has no native population because they were wiped out 200 years ago. 1 million people died in Iraq since 1990(yeah you liberated us from saddam) 500 thousand in Afghanistan dead since 2001 stealing resource from colonies( east India company any one and many more). I gosh I could remember the whole list. Such nice white Christian people eh. West must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. The problem of extremism we are experiencing is not "mass immigration", immigration has been happening since the dawn of mankind."

    Hey, Ifty. Nobody's perfect! On the plus side, white Christians (and some Jews it has to be said) have invented just about everything of any value. We've created the happiest, most advanced, cleanest, most prosperous, most attractive (judging by how many of your lot would love to settle here) and best-functioning countries in the world. As I've said in the past, is there even a single white person in Western Europe who would want to move to your hell holes? QED. And accusing us of the holocaust? Come on! I know you don't believe that really happened!!!

    "There's a new mainstream anti-Muslim racism that is built on fears for the survival of Western values."

    Correct again. But those fears are genuine. The white race IS under attack but beware - we are waking up to the threat in ever greater numbers and, like the Incredible Hulk, don't make us angry because you won't like us when we're angry. Just remember those Tasmanians, Indians and all those Iraqis and Afghans. We're the most tolerant people on the planet but push us too far and you'd better have good healthcare in place

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  14. And Ifty also said:

    "Islam has a rich history of being far tolerant of other beliefs than Christians."

    Maybe historically-speaking but we're not cutting off too many of your heads nowadays are we? Or blowing you up in suicide missions.

    "There will never be an end to immigration, because of ageing population and low birth rate. Without migration, European society and economy would bleed to death."

    As I said earlier, we don't need immigrants, especially from countries culturally and religiously incompatible with our own. We just need to encourage people to have more children. That could be done through financial incentives. Hitler did it between the wars, giving people a state loan for a house and then writing off chunks of it with each child. It worked

    "A Muslim is a citizen of this global tiny village. He does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. We are all part of a global village. I can reach Pakistan from London in seven hours."

    Don't let me stop you. In fact I'll have a whip round to help you out with the air fare.

    "Stop treating foreigners like garbage and they will stop ruining your precious country."

    Stop acting like garbage.

    "Why did you let them in in the first place if you didn't want them here? They left everything in their countries because of your promises."

    Nobody wanted them here. They were brought in by politicians. We had no say. And they "left everything behind"? What a massive sacrifice!

    "I would love to see you go to a foreign land where you don't have any friends, you don't even know anyone and you don't speak the language, and start from scratch."

    Only a nutter would do that, especially when it means "leaving everything behind". Mind you, if I lived in a shit hole then I'd maybe not have so much to lose.

    "Looking at the case of France, a major secular nation, I believe it is also not allowing women freedom by not letting her to wear her choice of clothing as it supposedly "clashes with French secular values"."

    Well done France! France is for white Christian French people, not muslims. If you don't like the culture then leave.

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    1. It is easy to say" Go back to where you came from", but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two different worlds. That is no easy. We do not want to change you lot but we would like to see our children getting balanced Islamic education along with National Curriculum. We would like our children to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time we would like our children to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Bilingualism is an asset but British schooling regards it as a problem.

      Islamic extremism and Washington’s extremism is not really that different in their goals of domination. I am more concerned about being shot by a cop in my own house than being shot or blown up by a Muslim also.

      The West has never been at ease with Islam since the Crusades. It is unfortunate that huge oil supplies lie under the Arabian Deserts. It is the West that stirred the trouble that led to 9/11. That attack was a desperate act of by men prepared to lose their life. We need to get to grips on who is the terrorist? On 24 November 1963, Lyndon Johnson said, “the battle against communism… must be joined… with strength and determination. Some three million lives were lost in the consequential battles. The US had to pull out due to Public Opinion. Communism lived on. So who was the terrorist?

      Terrorism and sexual grooming is nothing to do with Masajid, Imams and Muslim schools. Those Muslim youths who have been involved in terrorism and sexual grooming are the product of western education system which makes a man stupid, selfish and corrupt. They find themselves cut off from their cultural heritage, literature and poetry. They suffer from identity crises and I blame British schooling.

      None of 7/7 bombers and British Muslim youths who are in Syria and Iraq are the product of Muslim schools. They are the product of British schooling which is the home of institutional racism with chicken racist native teachers. It is absurd to believe that Muslim schools, Imams and Masajid teach Muslim children anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-western views. It is dangerously deceptive and misleading to address text books and discuss them out of their historical, cultural and linguistic context. It is not wrong to teach children that Jews are committing the same cruelty in Palestine what German did to them before or during Second World War. It is not wrong to teach children that anti-social behaviour, drinking, drugs, homosexuality, sex before marriage, teenage pregnancies and abortions are western values and Islam is against all such sins. This does not mean that Muslim schools teach children to hate westerners, Jews and homosexuals.
      IA
      http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

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    2. Cut and paste..............muslim moron.

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  15. If our governments want to help the Africans, they could do it better by sending financial help to Africa than by bringing the African population to Europe. With the same amount of money, they would be able to help more people, and they wouldn't destroy Europe in the process. Many Africans who are trying to get to Europe would probably be delighted to stay in Africa and get some financial help.

    But our governments' real aim is simply to bring in non-White immigrants. It has nothing to do with helping the Africans. The same is true of the BBC panelists. They couldn't care less about the Africans.

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  16. I have been going back and forth thinking about the role of the Jews in this forced preplanned immigration takeover. In recent days I went for a short observation, looking for two incidents involving the actions of "progressive" traitors. In both cases the name Rockefeller popped up under a form or another and the Jewish community at least formally appeared. The question is whether this is because their conscious active involvement, or is it just a matter of research intersection (because many Jews have high positions in the banking world and having the high echelons of the financial system clearly involved in liberal actions, the fact that some of them are Jews could be just a coincidence). So while the Jewish participation in the progressive crusade is obvious, the question is if they run with the wave, or are they the main force imposing this issue.

    Here are the two cases I was looking into:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1.
    -older news: Bundesbank to ask German president to dismiss Thilo Sarrazin over comments on country's Muslim population (article from September 2010)
    -president of the bank at the time: Axel A. Weber

    -Axel A. Weber is member of the G30, also known as Group of Thirty

    -The Group of Thirty was founded in 1978 by Geoffrey Bell at the initiative of the Rockefeller Foundation

    2.
    -NBC Cuts Ties With Donald Trump Over Immigration Remarks (29 June news, time.com)

    -NBC owner: flagship property of NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast. The network is headquartered in the Comcast Building (formerly known as the GE Building) at Rockefeller Center in New York City

    -Comcast
    founder:
    Ralph J. Roberts: Roberts grew up in a Jewish family in New Rochelle,
    New York and moved to Germantown, Philadelphia ...

    Roberts served on the boards of the Philadelphia Orchestra, the Brandywine River Museum, the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition, and the PENN Medicine Board of Trustees.[3] Roberts received awards from the National Cable and Telecommunications Association, the Walter Kaitz Foundation, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, The National Conference of Christians and Jews ...

    In 1942, Roberts married Suzanne Fleisher,[8] who was also Jewish,[1] an actress and playwright, and daughter of philanthropist Alfred W. Fleisher (philantropist=rich)

    founder:
    Julian A. Brodsky Brodsky was raised in a Jewish family[2] in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and...
    he also finished school in University of Pennsylvania, who's president
    Amy Gutmann wrote through other Democratic Education who takes through other on some contemporary scholarly debates: What is the appropriate response of democratic education to the challenge of multiculturalism --this is related to the environment where the student grew
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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